Sunday, July 31, 2005

Alien Alberts - Patriotic Prostitutes with a Persecution Complex

Whooee! A couplafew days ago, I wrote up a boog story 'bout the Alien Alberts Trash Talkin' Canada. Most o' the comments I got so far is from patriotic federalist Canajuns who love Canadee an' know that the Alien Alberts is dumbasses. But I gotta real live Alien Albert commented, too. That was a feller name o' Peter Rempel an' he's got his own boog called The Politic where he posted up a boog story makin' false accusations against me.

Now, ol' Peter seems t' have banned JimBobby from makin' comments on his boog. I never sed nuthin' that I reckon oughta get me blocked out but I s'pose I oughta expect dirty pool from a prostitute. Yeow! Did I jest say Peter Rempel an' all the Alien Alberts is whores? Yer damn right, I did.

Here's how I figger it. Them Alberty separatists has got jest one thing on their mind -- money. They're sellin' their patriotism t' the highest bidder an' they figger that's Alberty an' not Canadee. Whores, plain an' simple.

I'm all fer Alberty, don't get me wrong. It's part of Canadee an' I'm all fer Canadee. The Alien Alberts is a small fringe out in Alberty, where most o' the good folks is patriotic Canajuns who love this great home an' native land.

One o' them Alberty separatist whores commented over t' Pete's boog an' sed --

Hugo Says:
July 31st, 2005 at 7:45 am

“Bein’ able t’ say yer part of a big an’ beautiful home an’ native land oughta be benefit enuff. Bein’ free t’ live an’ work anywheres from St. John’s t’ Victoria oughta be benefit enuff.”

So a sovereign Alberta would not be able to say their country was big and beautiful? Since both size and beauty are subjective, that is logically impossible. Are you also saying that Alberta would place restrictions on the freedom to be employed where you want? Given the current trends in attitude of each province I find it very hard to believe that Albertans would be more inclined to social engineering than Ontarians.

“Freedom, equality an’ democracy are the benefits I want”

A pity you don’t have any of them. Freedom? You are denied the freedom to do what you want with your own money, property and body. Equality? Paul Martin can take your money at will. Can you take his? Democracy? Were you watching the same Parliament as the rest of us?

Since I can't answer Hugo over t' Pete's anti-free speech zone, I'll post up my answers here.

HugoFeller, Canadee is bigger an' more beautiful than Alberta. Since Canadee includes Alberty, it's logically at least as big an' as beautiful. But, you dumbass, since Canadee includes a lot more than jest Alberty, it's bigger an' more beautiful than Alberty is all by its lonesome. Shee-it! You stoopid or sumpin'? That's jest simple logic.

You figger an independent Alberty can give you the right t' live an' work from St. John's t' Victoria? Alberty might allow you to move around in Alberty. If yer talkin' 'bout an independent country, they can't give you the freedom t' work in another country.

My Canadee is the second-biggest country on the planet Earth. My Canadee goes from Cape Spear all the way west t' the Pacific Ocean an' up north t' the Arctic wastelands. I'm against anybuddy tryin' t' break up this country. So are almost all Canajuns. The dumbass Alberty separatists is trick-turnin' floozies out on the fringes o' decent society.

I don't hate 'em, though, like Pete sez in his lyin' boog title. I feel sorry fer 'em. Money's all that matters an' they ain't learned 'bout lovin' their home an' native land. I feel sorry fer 'em on accounta they can't see past their wallets an' notice the rich diversity o' Canadee. They're throwbacks to a tribal existence where strangers are shunned an' feared an' the tribe huddles together in its cave frettin' 'bout the evil outsiders takin' their grub.

Prehistoric prostitutes practicin' the world's oldest profession. Pitiful.

Freedom? You Alien Alberts got the right t' talk treason an' bad mouth yer homeland. That's sumpin' you can thank Canadee fer. Sum countries'll lock up yer sorryass fer such treachery. Others'll give you the death penalty. Canadee gives you the right t' say what you want an' agitate fer separatism. Fer Hugo, though, freedom is all 'bout money.

Equality? The selfsame sexy marryin' law's a good example. Once again, Hugo only talks about money. Havin' more money in yer greedy pocket's got nuthin' t' do with equality.

Democracy? Yeah, I been watchin' parliment. Look at my boog stories where I write about it all the time. Parliment ain't as democratic as it could be if we had us that there proportional representation I been readin' about. It ain't all bad, though. In the last election vote, more'n 50% o' Canajuns voted fer either the Grits or the NDP. They're runnin' the show. 29% voted fer the HarpoonTossers. They're tryin' t' run the show but, since they don't represent the majority, they're havin' a tuff time runnin' things. I'd call that democracy.

If the Alien Alberts is interested in a cyberclash o' cultures, bring 'em on. Everything they stand fer boils down t' greed. There ain't much t' fear from patriotic prostitutes with a persecution complex.

Yores trooly,
JimBobby

127 comments:

Mark Francis said...

Rempel's a blogging troll. Simple as that.

PR said...

Mark: That's funny, I thought it was Jim Bobby writing about me on his blog. How exactly does that make me a troll. Thanks for your contribution anyway.

Jim Bob: The Politic isn't my blog. If you think you've been banned from commenting, contact the administrator.

"HugoFeller, Canadee is bigger an' more beautiful than Alberta. Since Canadee includes Alberty, it's logically at least as big an' as beautiful. But, you dumbass, since Canadee includes a lot more than jest Alberty, it's bigger an' more beautiful than Alberty is all by its lonesome. Shee-it! You stoopid or sumpin'? That's jest simple logic."

Not really. The oppression of Alberta under Canada's institutional arrangements mean that Alberta can never be as great as it would be after throwing off the shackles of a dead and rotting federation.

I thought this comment was rather perceptive:

"Triple E's a reform t' Canadee's gummint. It ain't separatism. I reckon senate-reformers love this great home an' native land enuff t' wanna see it get better."

Yes, they do love their country, and are also incredibly naive. How accepting of triple-E has your province been, Jim Bob? And then you wonder why so many Albertans have turned to the firewalls for a solution (I'm a firewaller, incidentally, not a separatist).

Of course, the fact that you're not an Albertan hasn't stopped you from claiming to know everything there is to know about Alberta. Apparently we're a province of whores. Is this how you intend to persuade us to stay in Canada, by insulting our collective goals?

JimBobby said...

Whooee! If the Politic ain't yer blog, how is it yer postin' there AND when I check yer Blogger profile there's a link to what you sed is yer website - The Politic? I reckon anybuddy would think that's yer blog.

I don't take credit or blame fer everything that's done in Ontariariario, Petey. I made my own views clear 'bout Triple E but you decided that you's rather argue with the gummint of Ontario than with what I sed. Strawman, that's called.

You still ain't taken back yer lyin' accusation that I'm somehow denyin' yer rights. Why not? You sed I'm a hater but I never sed that. Jest the opposite. Why'd you tell that lie? Why ain't you takin' it back?

Now, you numbnuts, yer sayin' that I sed Alberty is a province o' whores. Well, shit-fer-brains, din't you read where I sed it was jest the Alien Albert separatists who was whores an' that they ain't but a tiny fringe. That's what I sed. Now, yer lyin' again an' you're sayin' I sed sumpin' I din't. You gonna take that back?

When you sed "Alberta can never be as great as it would be after throwing off the shackles of a dead and rotting federation," you sed a mouthful on jest how you feel about the land that I love, Canadee, best dang country in the whole dang world.

Alberty without the rockbound Newfie coast or the majestic BC mountains an' Pacific coastline or the frozen Arctic or even the Trawna stock exchange would NOT be better off. Only a few idjit whores who put money above patriotism would think that.

Oppression? Gimme a break. You ain't seen oppression. They got sum over in Tibet. Mebbe you wanna visit Myanmar an' come back an' whine 'bout how oppressed you snivellin' whores are 'cause yer forced t' contribute to our great Canadee.

Sell yer patriotism t' the highest bidder if you want. Jest remember that sellin' love makes you a whore, jest like I sed.

JimBobby

PR said...

"I reckon anybuddy would think that's yer blog."

It's called a group blog, genius. I contribute. I don't run it.

"I don't take credit or blame fer everything that's done in Ontariariario, Petey. I made my own views clear 'bout Triple E but you decided that you's rather argue with the gummint of Ontario than with what I sed. Strawman, that's called."

No, it's called you being a disingenuous ass. Triple-E is a useless pursuit, precisely because of your province pursuing its own self-interest. How long do you expact Alberta to come to Ontario, cap in hand? And why does it piss you off so much when we refuse to do so?

"Well, shit-fer-brains, din't you read where I sed it was jest the Alien Albert separatists who was whores an' that they ain't but a tiny fringe."

Albertans alienated from Canada's institutional arrangements are a fringe? You clearly know nothing about the province. Typical Ontarian.

"When you sed "Alberta can never be as great as it would be after throwing off the shackles of a dead and rotting federation," you sed a mouthful on jest how you feel about the land that I love, Canadee, best dang country in the whole dang world."

Thanks. I always enjoy hearing Liberal Party of Canada talking points.

"Sell yer patriotism t' the highest bidder if you want."

You are obviously are completely uninformed on the nature of Albertan culture and aspirations. I suppose you think we should continue sending money to the national government (read: the coffers of the Liberal Party) and continue bowing to our lords in Ontario. Keep up your arrogance; it will only persuade Albertans further that Ontarians are uninformed vindictive whores who want nothing more than to preserve the institutional arrangements that benefit them.

JimBobby said...

Whooee! I ain't keen on carryin' on a conversation with a feller who made a lyin' boog title that sed I hate Alberts. I ain't botherin' talkin' with a lyin' snake who sed I was denyin' sumbuddy's rights when I wasn't. I ain't got time fer sumbuddy who twists what I sed 'bout Alberty separatists t' mean I sed it 'bout all Albertans when I was quite clear I was only talkin' 'bout fringefellers like you. Jest like I don't speak fer Ontariariario, you don't speak fer Alberty, PeteFeller. Yer out on the edges - a tiny minority.

I take yer word fer it that you ain't the one who banned me from The Politic. I ain't about t' grovel an' ask sum "administrator" t' un-ban me. The fact I got banned speaks fer itself. The Politic (that's the blog you say IS your blog in your Blogger profile but you say AIN'T your blog when anybuddy's gotta complaint) - The Politic is anti-free speech. Whoever runs it oughta be ashamed. Whoever contributes oughta be concerned an' oughta tell the admin that they ain't happy 'bout cuttin' off free speech. It rubs off on you.

You ain't man enuff t' take back the lies you sed about me. You made up more lies in these here comments when you went an' sed I'm accusin' all Alberts o' whorin'. You know that ain't what I sed an' anybuddy readin' what's been sed can see yer lyin' plain as day.

Yer a lyin' traitor, Pete. You ain't a good cityzen. Yer a revolutionary an' yer lookin' t' break up the best country in the world. I ain't about t' sit still fer that an' I don't reckon too many patriotic Canajun Alberts'll sit still fer yer separatist agitatin', neither.

JB

Princess Monkey said...

JimBobby:
"an' anybuddy readin' what's been sed can see yer lyin' plain as day."

Yes we can. PR couldn't be more transparent. If he wants to dedicate his efforts to the useless and despicable task of trying to bust Canada apart - let him. He deserves no thought from you JB. He deserves exactly what is at the heart of his obvious frustration - to be ignored.

theotheralbert said...

"Albertans alienated from Canada's institutional arrangements are a fringe? You clearly know nothing about the province. Typical Ontarian."

Jimbobby, you're right to ignore uninformed statements like that one. Whoever this guy is, he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. The vast majority of Albertans are Canadians first, and will always be, in spite of the troubles the fringe tries to stir. Like you, we love this country too!

JimBobby said...

Whooee! Thankee fer chimin' in, PrincessGal an' OtherAl.
I reckon it's jest like yer sayin' an' most Alberts is Canajuns first, Alberts second. There's only a handful o' fringefellers, I know, but I reckon it's best t' check 'em back when they rear up. An', dang it, them that wanna bust up Canadee jest get me all in a lather. I probbly give 'em way more attention than they deserve.

JB

calgary observer said...

Peter Rempelstiltskin and the other separatists are prostitutes? Right on, man, right on!

Did I mention that they have been lobotomized too?

Scott Tribe said...

Alberta's separatist Party gained exactly 0.5% of votes last election... I dont call that a ringing endorsement of the rising tides of Alberta Separatism.

And... IF Alberta has been oppressed by the Liberals.. what about all that Liberal-NDP voter minority in Alberta that has been "oppressed" with 60 years combined of Social Credit or Conservative provincial government?

PR said...

Actually, I'm not a separatist, as CO claims. I'm a firewalls kind of guy. But the Calgary Observer is perpetually dishonest or stupid (sometimes simultaneously), so I won't harp on that.

What irritates me is when self-righteous Ontarians come along and tell Alberta what it should be thinking, and how stupid and ingracious we are for thinking that we're not doing so well under Canada's federal arrangements. Has anyone on these comments disputed this? No, we've just gotten alot of Liberal Party of Canada sloganeering. Not likely to capture the hearts and minds of Albertans, chumps.

PR said...

As for The Politic:

"I take yer word fer it that you ain't the one who banned me from The Politic. I ain't about t' grovel an' ask sum "administrator" t' un-ban me."

What are you, chicken? If you're not going to do anything about it, then stop whining about it.

"The Politic (that's the blog you say IS your blog in your Blogger profile but you say AIN'T your blog when anybuddy's gotta complaint) - The Politic is anti-free speech."

How fucking hard is this? It's a group blog, I'm one of many people who write on it. But I don't own the space or administer it. Go over there now and you can read George: "In the final analysis, Deepak is full of shit. And people who are full of shit will send you straight to hell because they don’t really care what they are talking about."

"Whoever runs it oughta be ashamed. Whoever contributes oughta be concerned an' oughta tell the admin that they ain't happy 'bout cuttin' off free speech. It rubs off on you."

Blah blah. Do you intend to level the same complaints against the Blank Out Times and the Calgary Observer? Didn't think so.

This dialogue is boring.

Meaghan Champion said...

As a matter of fact, Jim Bobby did raise the complaint with the Blank Out Times about no comments already. In fact, he was the first person that asked politely if we would allow commentary on our blog, lo these many months ago.

However... since most "comment sections" of blogs turn into this kind of tit-for-tat nonsense, and there really are only so many hours in the day... none of the Blank Out Times team wants to be bothered with the task of monitoring the utter crapola of people like say... you Peter...

We decided against allowing anybody to have comments on our blog. Everybody gets treated exactly the same.

I don't invite vandals into my home in real-life. I have no desire to allow vandals to come into our virtual home.

Our blog is not a public utility. It belongs to those of us who created it.

Now, you are free to comment on our blog at your own blog as much as you want, and we will always be happy to respond.

Nobody's free speech is being limited. Everybody who is not an owner or team member of the blog gets the exact same treatment. Everbody who is not an owner, contributor gets the same treatment.

Unlike your little blog where you selectively seem to pick and choose which comments you allow and which one's you don't want

Now.. a few people that we know have asked to be able to become team members of the Blank Out Times blog, and we have added them to the roster so that if they want to comment they are able.

We made the decision based on our own subjective opinons about what kind of signal:noise ratio they would bring to the blog.

If JimBobby would like to become a team member of the Blank Out Times, I think we would welcome him...
He hasn't asked however.

It's very simple Peter... our refusal to let assholes like you spray graffitti all over our blog, and waste our time serves the same purpose as what they used to call a "twit filter" or "bozo bin" back in the good old days of usenet.

When you stop acting like a bozo and a twit, maybe you too will be invited to be a team member of the blank out times Peter. Until then...
*Plonk*

JimBobby said...

Whooee! Thankee, again, fer chimin' in, fellers an' gals.

Petey sez I'm a chicken on accounta I won't grovel t' sum dumbass who selectively edits comments an' bans those who disagreee with his narrow views. Bullshit! It's up t' the people who run that there boog t' make it fair an' square. It ain't up t' me t' piss an' moan an' plead an' beg an' wheedle sum anti-free speech idjit inta doin' the right thing. It's up t' the group boog members t' steer their boog in the right direction. If Pete cared the teeniest bit 'bout free speech, he'd be tellin' that that adminfeller what's what.

An' there really ain't much point commentin' on a post where the whole boog title an' story is lies. Pete's been called on them lies an' he had plenty o' time t' take 'em back. I don't wanna bother with The imPolitic an' it's selective, biased, unfair, chickenshit way o' showin' only them comments that they like an' cuttin' off dissenters. It's a blight on the Canajun boogeysphere an' on Canajun values o' free-speech. It don't deserve anything -- especially any beggin' fer mercy from me.

Cuttin' off discussion is a tyrants game. I don't supplicate t' tyrants. I "did sumpin' 'bout it" when I dragged the fight back over here where it started before Petey posted up his boog story full o' lies.

Why don't you take back all those lies, PeteyBoy? You chicken, or sumpin'? You've had plenty o' time an' chances.

I'm happy as Larry t' see a sum other Alberts who ain't trecherous, snivellin' money-grubbers like the Alberty Separatists. I know that most Alberts ain't Alien separatists an' they're good patriotic Canajuns.

PeteFeller jest keeps reinforcin' the whole prostitute definition when he keeps askin' -- "What's in it fer me?" Worse part is he don't have no shame about it. "You want lovin'? Show me the money."

An' PeteyBoy, sayin' yer a "firewaller" don't mean shit. Firewaller, separatist... same kind o' hooker. You wanna horde all o' Alberty's wealth fer yerself an' keep from sharin' with the country that birthed you. Greedy whore!

Yer right on one thing. It IS borin' t' keep lissenin' t' yer lies waitin' fer you t' take 'em back.

JB

calgary observer said...

Peter Rempelstiltskin proves it again each time he posts: that he has never had any brain whatsoever. He calls other stupid when he in fact is the most unintelligent, retarded and immature person I have ever seen (in real and virtual life).

Peter, you should seek professional help. Or, better yet, go talk to your Mommie (and get off that computer as your Mommie told you to).

jeff said...

"Cuttin' off discussion is a tyrants game. I don't supplicate t' tyrants."

Yet, a hell of alot of left wing blogs pursue this very practice. Trigger happy, quick to call dissention "trolling", quick to remind those that are getting their asses whipped(JimBobby) that they should ignore,ignore,ignore(Princess Monkey), and quick to criticize the arguer instead of addressing the argument.
Peter R., keep up the good work! True Albertans need more people that aren't afraid to be called 'traitors' because they don't enjoy bending over for their prison masters in Ontario, anymore.
Long live Alberta!

JimBobby said...

Whooee! JeffBoy, if you read this whole thing an' you come up with the conclusion that I'm gettin' my ass whipped, I'd say you better brush up an yer readin' skills.

The lyin' guy who lied an' lied an' won't take any of his lies back an' who everybuddy can see is a lyin' liar is the guy who got his ass whipped.

Anybuddy else who wants t' bust up Canadee'll get their dumbass whipped, too. There's hunnerts o' times more Alberty patriots who love Canadee than separatist rats who wanna break it up.

Don't come in here bitchin' 'bout what you claim "a hell of alot of left wing blogs" do. I allow everybuddy t' comment an' I don't select the ones I like an' throw away the ones I don't. The only one I know doin' that is The Politic an' I called 'em on it. I ain't the onliest one who called 'em on it, neither. Go look at Ianism.

Long live Alberta! Long live BC! Long live Ontario! Long live PEI!Long live New Brunswick! Long live Newfoundland & Labrador! Long live Nova Scotia! Long live Quebec! Long live Manitoba! Long live Saskatchewan!

Long live Canada!

Yores trooly,
JImBobby

Rob Cottingham said...

Peter, seems to me you're -- deliberately or accidentally -- confusing Albertans generally with Alberta-isolationists, in order to be able to complain that JimBobby's attacking the whole province ("our collective goals") instead of criticizing just one narrow part of it.

Jeff, what is it with the right wing and its addiction to prison-rape imagery? Join a freakin' 12-step program or something.

jeff said...

Well, I just posted two responses in a row. Neither showed up in the commments section. Hmmmmmm..........

Richard said...

OH, THIS IS GOING TO BE FUN... I'll be seeing you soon JB, that is if you're not too busy with a cousin...

JimBobby said...

Jeff, I seen those comments an' then they disappeared. I even responded t' one of 'em but when I seen they was gone, I figgered you musta erased 'em. I sure din't.

JB

Scotian said...

Classic jeff, drive by smear without reading the whole matter first, or else reading it through his "if it ain't conservative it's to be misrepresented" filtered glasses. As for Peter Rempel, I seem to remember him not that long ago saying he was quitting blogging, he shut down his blog, and yet never actually quit blogging or being a royal nuisance everywhere else.

Peter Rempel:

You do owe this blogger an apology for claiming he hated all Albertans when he clearly stated his problems were with Albertan separatists. Until and unless you can show anything that demonstrates a majority of Albertans also share this separatist vision for you to claim he smeared all Albertans is a blatant falsehood. Given your track record though I doubt you will ever retract your baseless lies and character assassination. After all, if you couldn't lie and misrepresent other people's comments you would have so little straw to create your straw man arguments from. It is not like you have ever demonstrated any real capacity for honest discussion after all.

jeff said...

Scotian, you don't want to draw the ire of the Cannuckistan Chronicle Crew.....trust me, you don't need us breathing down your neck as you attempt to decipher your way across the political landscape of Blogospherianopia. We's running this shit now, boy........

Martin B. said...

Small comment. You North Americans seem obsessed with "patriotism". I think it's time people called a spade a spade and realised that what they are is nationalists.

I'm not saying that's bad (well, for a capitalist democracy anyways). I just don't understand why nationalists have to wrap themselves in their respective flags and cry out that ideologically, they are very different from other rightists simply because of a word.

Anonymous said...

Jeff: So - when you can't get your way, you resort to threats?

Wow - last time I saw that kind of crap, I was in grade school. Grow Up!

Zorpheous said...

"Scotian, you don't want to draw the ire of the Cannuckistan Chronicle Crew.....trust me, you don't need us breathing down your neck as you attempt to decipher your way across the political landscape of Blogospherianopia. We's running this shit now, boy........"

WOW,

More veiled threats, although I'm very sure this is hardly a concern given the source here, Jelly-Jeff, the man who is afraid to answer questions. LOL

The Dumbfuckistan Crew, oh no, not the Dumbfuckistan Crew, anything but them, Oh no, what will we do when they start to troll the blogs? How will people ever respond to their lies and made up BS.

Thanks for the laugh Jelly-Jeff, I'm sure everyone enjoyed the joke that is you. I know I did.

Scotian said...

Ah, I see that when challenged on bad conduct we get more bad conduct. So now I am being threatened by what, a bunch of whiny children that when challenged to act in an honourable and principled manner instead feel that elementary schoolyard sandbox bullying tactics is the way to go. Yet these same people wonder why they are not treated seriously and are instead dismissed as childish. Not that this surprises me, given all that I have seen from the Canadian conservative online community, granted with a few exceptions, but generally this seems to be the approach favoured. When one cannot rebut an argument, attack the person making the argument, be it a personal attack or this threat to my blog.

Now, granted, being threatened by jeff is akin to being threatened by an ant, and worries me about as much. However, I believe the kind of conduct he is suggesting be employed against me would also be sufficient for me to register a formal complaint with their blogging services if they follow through on it, or failing that their ISPs. Not to mention the likely threats that will be posted that I can send off to police if they are too violent in nature. So please jeff, feel free to follow through on your childish threats, in the end they will do you and yours far more harm than me.

Anonymous said...

Scotian, you don't want to draw the ire of the Cannuckistan Chronicle Crew.....

Glad to see you're no longer spelling that with "K"s.

The Invisible Hand said...

An' PeteyBoy, sayin' yer a "firewaller" don't mean shit. Firewaller, separatist... same kind o' hooker. You wanna horde all o' Alberty's wealth fer yerself an' keep from sharin' with the country that birthed you. Greedy whore!

Yeah, how dare those firewaller Albertans try to run their province the way Ontarians and Quebecers run theirs! Who do they think they are?

JimBobby said...

Whooee! Is there a firewall 'round Ontariariario? I'm serious. I din't reckon there was but it sounds like the invisible hand is sayin' that Ontario an' Q-beck already got firewalls an' Alberty firewallers is lookin' fer the same thing.

I'm really interested in learnin' more 'bout them firewalls. How d' they work? Are they helpin' Ontariariarians t' horde their wealth an' keep from sharin' with other Canajuns? If that's so, I ain't fer it. I reckon Canajuns is all in the selfsame Canajun boat an' rich folks in Ontario can spare sumthin' fer the pore folks in Nunavut an' Newfoundland.

I reckon we're at our best when we're all pullin' together. I sure ain't happy t' see greed motivatin' dumbasses t' try an' pull us apart.

I ain't too happy t' see bully-boy schoolyard threats gettin' tossed 'round here in my comments, neither. That ain't good boogin' an' it ain't good debatin'. Everybuddy knows bullies has got deep-seated emotional troublems an' they deserve our pity but their bullyin' makes it hard t' feel sorry fer 'em, that's fer sure.

Yores trooly,
JimBobby

jeff said...

You guys really do have a tough time with sarcasm and metaphorical language. But that's ok. It's been scientifically proven that liberal/lefties don't have the reasoning abilities to decipher reality from metaphor. Probably why so many mock the Bible! :)

jeff said...

Oh, and JimBobby! You can mind your own business and leave Alberta's sovereignty squarely in the hands of those that it belongs....Albertans. I don't hear you bitching about Quebec's seperatist movement?

The Invisible Hand said...

Since JimBobby either has no idea what the "firewall" plan was about or is being deliberately obtuse, I'll summarize it here:

1. Replace the Canada Pension Plan with an Alberta Pension Plan.
2. Collect its own provincial income tax.
3. Replace the RCMP with a provincial police force.
4. Take more control over health care policy, presumably allowing more private sector involvement.
5. Hold a provincial referendum on Senate reform, to force the federal government to consider the issue.

As they relate to my post:

1. Quebec has its own pension plan.
2. Quebec collects its own income tax.
3. Ontario and Quebec both have provincial police forces instead of using the RCMP.
4. Quebec has more private health care than Alberta, and other provinces aren't far behind.
5. This is the only one that doesn't apply equally to Ontario and/or Quebec, but then it doesn't have anything to with creating a "firewall" (especially since it would more closely integrate Alberta with Canada, by way of giving the province more real representation in Ottawa).

jeff said...

JimBobby and his eastern cohorts call Albertans that want a firewall and less intrusion from Ontario, greedy. What do they call Quebecers that ask for the same sovereignty?
My guess is that they (JimBobby and company) are jealous of our extreme wealth....and the fact that we don't need the Liberal government REALLY pisses them off.
The fact that a Conservative province(34 years and counting) can surpass any NDP or Liberal province is the bitter pill that just won't go down. This post by JimBobby is the coughing and choking gasps of another easterner beginning to realize that we (Alberta) don't need the east's interpretation (Liberal) of what it means to be a true patriot.

Zorpheous said...

Oh there goes Jelly-Jeff again, more mouth than facts.

Jeff you do know that on a per-capita base the economies of Alberta and Ontario are equal, right? Actually right now Alberta is a few percentage points a head of Ontario, but that is more due to the price of oil than anything else.

What do we call Quebec Seperatist? Idiots, just like what we call Alberta Seperatist. Just in Quebec there are a lot more than the few crying weeenies in Alberta, so we have to play nice and not insult them. You on the other hand, we can afford to laugh at since your numbers are about as strong as the NDP in Alberta.

And Jelly Jeff, if you think a Provincial Police Force and Provincial Pension Plan will come free of charge, you may find yourself beotching about paying Provincial Income Taxes, just like we do here in Ontario ;-) If you want those services, you have to pay the bills.

Alberta Seperatist, nothing more than a fart in wind storm. Now the Bloc are a Fart Storm in the wind.

Walkies Jeff?

Anonymous said...

Jeff:

The political monoculture in Alberta is precisely why Alberta Conservatives don't understand the ROC.

They're so used to being able to push through their edicts in the legislature they can't grok the notion that politics is actually about finding common grounds of compromise. (Hence Harper's utterly abysmal performance last session)

As for "Alberta's economy surpassing Ontario" - with the current world oil price situation, a shaved chimpanzee could accomplish the same thing. I'll also point out that in the 1980s, when our economy was struggling, it was a Conservative government that drove us even further into the sewage swamp of debt. (Remember Don Getty's plan to pave every back road in the province??? I do - and it was a cock-up that actually made Ralph look good in comparison).

JimBobby said...

Whooee! Invisible Hand Feller, thankee fer yer explanation on what firewallers want. I reckon I don't have any problem with them 5 things you named off. I already come out fer senate reform awhile back. You can see what I sed at EEE-k! A Mouse in the Upper House.

Ol' Peter sed he's a firewaller. He also sed "The oppression of Alberta under Canada's institutional arrangements mean that Alberta can never be as great as it would be after throwing off the shackles of a dead and rotting federation."

Now, I may be thick, but that sure don't sound like he's lookin' fer reform. It sounds more like he wants Alberty out o' Canadee.

Is he a firewaller or is he a separatist? If he only wants them 5 things you sed, I reckon he's a firewaller. If he wants Alberty t' break loose from the shackles o' Canadee, he's a separatist.

Now, if he's a separatist, like his hateful words fer Canadee say, he ain't a firewaller. How come he sez he's jest a firewaller when he really wants Alberty outta the "dead and rotting federation"?

Like I sed, if firewallin' is only them 5 things you sed, I ain't against it. If firewallin' means bustin' up Canadee, I'm dead set against it.

When anybuddy starts sayin' this great Canadee o' ours is dead and rotten, I reckon I'll tell 'em what's what. An' I don't care if they live in Alberty or Q-beck or Washington, DC.

An' I sure don't like it when bullyBoys tell me what I should an' shouldn't be able t' talk about. If that's the sorta folks who wanna be callin' the shots in the sovereign fiefdom of Alberta, free-speech is in trouble.

Yores trooly,
JimBobby

Anonymous said...

Firewall is the Alberta Separatist regurgitation of Rene Levesque's "Sovereignty Association" of the 1970s. It was a farce then, it's a farce now.

I find it notable that the separatists in Alberta were amazingly non-existent during the hard times, and now they resurface. What would they do the first time our economy ran into trouble? Vanish?

The other thing they conveniently miss is that a "sovereign" Alberta would be a land-locked nation, with no ready access to ports for offshore shipping. (Lessee - an alienated Canada would cooperate why?) Of course, they love point to their "good buddies" in the USA - ignoring entirely how the USA has treated other allies/protectorates (e.g. Peurto Rico, the US Virgin Islands etc.)

jeff said...

"An' I sure don't like it when bullyBoys tell me what I should an' shouldn't be able t' talk about. If that's the sorta folks who wanna be callin' the shots in the sovereign fiefdom of Alberta, free-speech is in trouble."

I didn't realize you are an Albertan, JimBobby! I was under the impression that you are an easterner aka Ontarioioan. Call me a 'bullyBoy' all you want. You have no right to speak to Albertans on what they should and shouldn't do. Like Lynyrd Skynrd said to Neil Young " Southern man don't need him around, anyhow."
You can't force your eastern based hegemony on us any more. We don't want it, and we don't need it.....

jeff said...

"I'll also point out that in the 1980s, when our economy was struggling, it was a Conservative government that drove us even further into the sewage swamp of debt."

Wrong. What drove us into debt was the NEP inspired by the federal Liberals.

Anonymous said...

The NEP trashed Alberta's economy (along with triggering a nationwide recession), a "Conservative" government spending money like we weren't in a recession drove Alberta into debt.

I have no admiration for the NEP, but I also hold no delusions that the government of the day (especially when Getty took over in 1985) had the opportunity to be much smarter about how they spent money.

Instead, Getty cut funding to our education system, and spent money paving every rural backroad he could find. Getty was a disaster as a premier - his only redeeming feature was his departure.

Scotian said...

"I ain't too happy t' see bully-boy schoolyard threats gettin' tossed 'round here in my comments, neither. That ain't good boogin' an' it ain't good debatin'"

JimBobby at 2:14pm

My apologies for my response to being threatened on your blog. I have no intention of continuing in such a vein. The one response I made was as much a fair warning to jeff if he were to follow through on his little threat, and it is all I will say on the matter here. I have no intentions of being so rude in your place. On another matter I notice jeff does not seem to grasp that you are a Canadian and your last post was referring to your rights as a Canadian to speak what you choose. How he translated that into you claiming you were Albertan was a twisting of reasoning so profound I could not follow it. I for one thought your comment was quite straightforward and clear in it's meaning.

I guess though this has been what this thread was all about to begin with. Namely the creation of straw man arguments and positions being attributed to you, indeed that the straw was made of some rather vile and nasty things to be calling someone without evidence to support such bile. It is unfortunate that you have been slimed, given that what you are being called on is nothing you actually said/wrote. What is it with some people and their inability to actually read what was written? Is it deliberate, or is it that their perceptual filters have substituted what you must have "really" meant instead of what you said. Either way it is a mentality I find most unpleasant, and I suspect you do too. I do know which I find more dangerous though, and that is the latter. True believers/zealots always make me nervous, regardless of their particular belief/focus.

Gazetteer said...

So this firewalling thing....what happens if a piece of that minority that Mr. Cottingham talked about way upthread, which just might be the overwhelming majority in a small defined geographic area within the greater Republic of Marv Alberts in, say, a place like Strathcona, gets uppity and disagrees?

Do they get to go hog wild and build a lava-moat?

JimBobby said...

Whooee! Thankee fer chimin' in, Anonymous, Gaz an' Scotian.

Scotian, I weren't thinkin' o' anything you sed when I growsed 'bout bullies. You ain't no bullyboy.

When Petey told them lies he won't take back, I reckon it was "intellectual dishonesty" like Ian Scott sed over t' his fine boog.

I ain't a hunnert percents worth sure if Jeff is bein' dishonest or if mebbe he's got hisself a bad readin' problem. When I read what he sez, I got real doubts 'bout the pore little feller's readin' skills. It's a damn shame fer a feller t' have troublems with the readin' comprehension. It could make sumbuddy feel so bad 'bout their ignorant self they'd wanna lash out all bully-like.

I knowed a few fellers back in my schooldays who was bullies. They was bad at readin', too. Sad cases, sez I.

JB

Balbulican said...

JB, Peter's not a troll. He's just young and a "student".

Based on his comments at Ian's, he's very proud of this: he feels his lack of life experience equips him with the kind grand political vision that we poor old farts, handicapped as we are by years of actually living in and working across Canada, cannot hope to achieve.

I'm pretty sure from his limited perception of Canada that Peter has never worked or lived immersed in another culture. Fortunately youth-based ignorance is a condition cured by time. He's not a stupid young man...just arrogant. Growing up may cure that.

jeff said...

"I ain't a hunnert percents worth sure if Jeff is bein' dishonest or if mebbe he's got hisself a bad readin' problem. When I read what he sez, I got real doubts 'bout the pore little feller's readin' skills."

HAHAHAHA....bad reading problem? How can you blame me when I have to decipher the jibber jabber that you are attempting to write, JimBobby! Shit.......

Ti-Guy said...

...he's very proud of this: he feels his lack of life experience equips him with the kind grand political vision that we poor old farts, handicapped as we are by years of actually living in and working across Canada, cannot hope to achieve.

And, as reluctant as I am to do so, I feel obligated to extend a modicum of charity to the Rumpel, because I do remember myself, in my youth, feeling virtuous about my grand visions for the world, constructed through a process of reason and unassailable logic, untainted in any way by the corrupting influences of compromise and doubt.

Of course, that only lasted for 2 years (years 1 and 2 of undergrad) and I did have better manners, but still. Anyway, how long does the Rumpel have left on the bunny patch?

Balbulican said...

Ti-Guy, you've hit it on the head. This is why I can't really get mad at him: memories of my own innocent absolutisms are still embarassingly fresh.

I feel some sympathy for these grim young dogmatists. Our follies were by and large confined to conversation: their foolishness is enshrined forever in this etheric amber we inhabit.

Ti-Guy said...

I envy your sang-froid, Balbulican.

I am eternally grateful my adolescent musings (like the time I "reasonned" up both Communism and Objectivism all in one extended dialectical ephinany) are not immortalised on the web somewhere. Oy, would my face be red now!

JimBobby said...

Whooee! Balboolie an' Ti-Guy, yer real gentlemen, no two ways. I reckon I done an' sed a few dumbass things when I was a youngun. I'm wonderin' 'bout sumpin', though. When you sed ol' Petey is jest young Petey an' he's a student, d'y'know what grade he's in. I hate t' think I been wastin' my typewritin' fingertips on a Grade 7 kiddie. I got kiddies o' my own older'n that.

Life makes a great teacher, I tell you what. I spent most o' my workin' life poundin' nails in the new home buildin' biz. Bein' self-employed an' runnin' a crew fer 20 years gimme sum perspective on unions an' taxes an' unemployment insurance an' all. Most folks figger I'm sorta small-c conservative. I don't think so but if I am then I'm a pergressive conservative.

Anybuddy growsin' 'bout my way o' writin' musta had troublems readin' the line I put at the top o' every boog page that sez - "If you don't like my way o' writin', jest change the channel." If only they had better readin' skills they wouldn't o' wasted all their time decipherin' my jibber-jabber. They could o' jest changed the channel an' saved 'emselves the bother.

Yores trooly,
JimBobby

Zorpheous said...

The best thing about the way JimBobby writes is that he writes like this in his private email.

It's kind of a Hillbilly Danker, not really a true danker, but a unique dankering sub-style.

All a part of the flavour and style of his "booger" (I think that is how he writes it, read BLOG).

Keep up the good fight JimBobby

Ti-Guy said...

Balboolie an' Ti-Guy, yer real gentlemen, no two ways.

Oh, Balbulican is, but I'm not. I've gotten angry enough with people like the Rumpel (and the Rumpel himself) too often.

I think he's an undergrad, JimBobby. I seem to remember a reference to a critique a professor gave him about his writing. Which is why he's really only got about a half-minute left on his lengthy awakening to the ways of the adult world.

jeff said...

JimBobby, you say you were in the construction industry framing houses? Did you take a couple two by fours to the head or were you born with this speech impediment? LOL

jeff said...

http://www.albertaresidentsleague.com/Articles/National/MortonVoicesToryAmbitions_July27_03.htm

Balbulican said...

Apart from the interesting confirmation that Stephen Harper's priority is Alberta, not Canada - and we DO appreciate the reminder - what were you drawning our attention to, Jeff?

jeff said...

I'm glad you asked Bulbican. I was drawing your attention to the fact that the dream and ambition of greater independence and seperation from Ottawa is not limited to 'students' and those that haven't 'matured' yet. This dream encompasses a diverse cross section of the Alberta population.
One, most certainly does not have to be inexperienced or naive to see the writing on the wall. All that's needed is some commen sense and political insight. The fact that Alberta would be FAR better off outside of the confederation is not common knowledge to most Albertans. Peter and I shall endeavour to make this knowledge commonplace stock talk in Alberta.

Ti-Guy said...

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz. Uh, wha'?...ZZZZZZzzzzzzz...

Balbulican said...

Thanks for the clarification. I have no doubt that the rest of Canada is trembling at your impending assault, and I shall have my exit visa and passport in order.

So...back to that very interesting link you so kindly provided...has Mr. Harper repudiated any of those views, or do they still represent his vision of provincial federal relations?

jeff said...

Who gives a shit about what Harper said in 2000? The fact remains that the east will never vote for a western based prime ministerial body, and I can assure you that Alberta will never vote for an eastern based priministerial body. Stalemate Jacky! Looks like it's time to implement the firewall and the provisional ministerial appointments to all concerning bodies herein........

jeff said...

Ti-Dye.....don't make me bitch slap your sorry unemployed ass, awake. Enough of your verbose dialections. Give me the straight goods you silly y'easterner.

Ti-Guy said...

ZZZZzzzzzz...*snorf*....*scratch, scratch*....zzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZ

jeff said...

lmao

Balbulican said...

"Who gives a shit about what Harper said in 2000?"

The folks who are looking for a political alternative, but who worry about electing a regional candidate. Unfortunately you've just reconfirmed that worry.

"Stalemate Jacky!"

Well...not quite. "Statelemate" implies a tie. Fortunately the vast majority of Canadians...including a majority of Albertans...prefer Canada as an option. Now, I don't doubt that you and Peter will shortly change all that through force of pure reason and your astonishing charisma, and I'm liquidating all my assets in terrified anticipation.

jeff said...

"The folks who are looking for a political alternative, but who worry about electing a regional candidate. Unfortunately you've just reconfirmed that worry."

Shit, you think Harper is a regional candidate? I think Martin is a regional candidate. What/when has he done anything for Alberta? This clown is an eastern shill whoooore of the most egregious variety. I spit on his duplicity. Oops, I may have hit you with my spat as well, Bulbican.......

Balbulican said...

"Shit, you think Harper is a regional candidate?"

Regrettably, yes, as confirmed once again by the link you provided. It's a pity, because I'd love to see the Liberals given a run for their money by a credible alternative.

But he can't have it both ways. Peter et al. have articulately and repeatedly expressed the "Fuck Canada" position: and at the same time, they express a largely unequivocal loyalty to Harper, who claims to be heading a national party. You see the contradiction?

The BQ doesn't pretend to be a national party. They don't campaign or run candidates outside Quebec.

Mr. Harper's support of positions like the one you kindly linked us to, and the loyalty he commands among folks of the Fuck Canada persuasion, have pretty much pegged him...and the party...as an Alberta concern. As I said, too bad...I wish there were a real alternative with a national perspective.

jeff said...

Woahhhh hold the boat Bulbican! Harper is an MP of Calgary/AB so it stands to reason that his primary concerns lie with Alberta's best interest. I would expect no less of Martin nor any other MP. Just because Harper has been vocal (5 yrs ago) about his concerns for Alberta's welfare (a province which he is a federal MP for), why do you believe he would be any less effective on a national level than Martin? What has Martin done for the west? His loyalties are crystal clear to those in the west watching the Big Show. Like I've said before: The east will never elect a western based pm; and I doubt the west will elect an eastern based pm, ever again. That spells stalemate.

jeff said...

http://westernstandard.ca/website/index.cfm?page=article&article_id=928

Balbulican said...

"Harper is an MP of Calgary/AB so it stands to reason that his primary concerns lie with Alberta's best interest."

Ever serve on a Board of Directors, Jeff - of a corporation or a non-profit organization?

It's usually assumed when you're elected to any Board that you're being elected to represent a particular constituency...could be geographic, sectoral, or demographic. But once you're on the Board, you are bound by law, under the Canada Corporations Act, to make decisions in the best interests of the organization as a whole...even if those decisions run against the best interests of the group that elected you.

That's not the case with the Parliament of Canada, where MPs are expected to act as representatives of, and advocates on behalf of, their constituency.

But it IS the case when we're talking about a Prime Minister (not in legal terms, but as a principle). Gilles Duceppe will never become Prime Minister of Canada because it is clear he is incapable of moving beyond his constituency and acting (or even pretending to act) on behalf of Canada as a whole. Most Canadians suspect Mr. Harper is a regionalist in federalist clothing. His support for the organization and principles you linked us to supports that view: and so does the passionate loyalty he commands from the Fuck Canada contingent.

And that's great. It may be that Alberta is best served by being represented by a vocal Western fringe party that occasionally threatens to leave. It's certainly worked well for Quebec, and may do just as well for Alberta. But for those of us who would like to see a credible alternative on the right with a real national vision for Canada, Harper is a huge disappointment.

As for the "stalemate"...well, last time I looked, Canada was still out there, Alberta was still a part of it, and the Liberals were still in power.

Oh, right,I forgot...you and Peter are about to bring all that crashing down. Forgive me if I fail to quake just yet.

jeff said...

Perhaps you should read the article I linked to in my last comment. Appears that it isn't only Peter and I that feel this way. 36 % of my fellow westerners also seem to be voicing the same concerns. Fringe element? I think not......

Balbulican said...

Oh, I did. It didn't really address the question of Harper's unfitness to lead a national party, but it did provide me with a useful reference for what you consider to be reliable information.

May I summarize?

A professor at a community college (afterward referred to "the pollster", although his credentials as a statistical analyst are not provided, unless I missed them) is hired by a western publication with an established separatist bent, and establishes that a minority of Albertans think that Alberta should "begin to explore the idea" of forming their own country (not "separating", mind you..."begin to explore the idea of".)

No data on the randomization method is provided, which leaves open the question: what measures were taken to include a representative sample of the largest, fastest growing minority in Alberta...i.e., the Aboriginal population?

Interestingly, the "pollster" and I agree on one thing. Support for "beginning to explore the idea of etc." is strongest among those with the least life experience, who are, as noted, the least likely to actually do anything about it.

I could go on, Jeff, but why bother? There's a difference between (a) serious social research and (b) bullshit mock journalism aimed at building up circulation for a flight magazine. Either you know that, or you don't.

jeff said...

"Support for "beginning to explore the idea of etc." is strongest among those with the least life experience, who are, as noted, the least likely to actually do anything about it."

This has always been the case in most civilizations around the world. The students and youth of today, will be leading the country tomorrow. The tendency to dismiss youth as naive and less experienced is, in itself, a naive and dangerous miscalculation. Who drove social change in the US during the 60's and post Vietnam? Students. The televised Ukranian revolution as well as recent public demonstrations in China have all shown students and youth as the catalysts for these movements. If anything, those with less life experience aren't as 'effected' nor disillusioned by the powerless apathy that begins to creep in after realizing one is powerless to change the democratic deficits that exist in one's governance.
Concerning Harper, I don't see why he would not be an effective national leader for the right. His 'base' is in Alberta; Martin's base is in Ontario. Martin is no less of a regionalist than Harper. It's just comes into focus when you are able to step back from the 'Big Show', as we in Alberta have been able to do, and view the hypocrisy from a distance.

Anonymous said...

Jeff:

Harper could _become_ an effective leader for the CPC - assuming the party doesn't do the "eat their young' trick again and replace him.

As for Ezra LeRant's latest little "poll", the questions are slanted and leading. At best the poll shows what Ezra wanted it to, at worst it's blatantly misleading as to the reality of "separatist" sentiment among Western Canadians.

Besides - like the Byfields when they ran Alberta Report, LeRant doesn't do journalism - he'll cook up whatever "facts" he needs to support his position - regardless of their lack of proximity to any known reality.

jeff said...

I've taken a look at both the methodology and the exact questions asked. This poll showed a much higher affinity for seperation among males than females and Alberta ranked the highest of all the western provinces (big surprise). Here's a link to the analysis of the polling results:

jeff said...

http://www.nealenews.com/Miscellaneous.htm

jeff said...

I challenge anyone to find fault with the questions asked in this poll (ie. slanted or biased). I'm no fan of polls, but this certainly seems to show that no matter how you look at it, there is widespread discontent in the west. To deny the fact that the west is seriously considering their seperatist options is terribly naive and foolhardy.

Anonymous said...

http://canadiancerberus.blogspot.com/2005/08/western-standard-putsch-push-poll_04.html

Zorpheous said...

Actually Jelly-Jeff if you have have found the methodology for that poll would you please post it. Because in the reading I have done in the article, they never mention the methodology at all.

And Jeff, those questions were very slanted. Or are you just consider about seculating about letting the idea of seperation crossing your mind?

Well, Jelly-Jeff. Here's your chance to actually demonstrate that you might have a understanding of mathematical theory and it application. So please, post the link to this poll's methodology.

jeff said...

Oh for Fox Creek, Zorpheous! My last link had a direct link within it. Go there and see for yourself the methodology used:

Methodology:

Data were collected between June 29 and July 5 2005 by Dr. Faron Ellis.

A total of 1,448 adult residents of western Canada were interviewed by telephone. Respondents were selected randomly. Where necessary, the sample has been statistically weighted to more accurately represent the demographic distribution of the population. The margin of error for the weighed sample is + 2.6 per cent, 19 times out of 20. The margin of error increases when analyzing sub-samples of the total.

Ti-Guy said...

But, with regard to the description of the methodology, where's the statement "...and we're not lying."

Without that, we can only conclude, that the pollsters might be lying (20 times out of 20, with a margin of error of 0%)

Actually, from what I've read, the poll was an unethical push-poll. The poll prefaced its questions with statements about the failures of the Martin government (...democratic renewal, etc.) and then asked the respondants questions about what separatists options should be investigated.

Any poll that seeks pre-determined conclusions is not scientific; and this one clearly was not.

Balbulican said...

Jeff, I didn't want to eat up too much of our gracious host's space. But I posted some comments on the alleged "research" over at Stageleft, if you're curious. A very survey indeed, I'm afraid.

jeff said...

Questionnaire:

Q In the last federal election campaign, Prime Minister Paul Martin dedicated his government to eliminating the democratic deficit by making the federal government more representative and responsible. Please indicate how effective you think the Martin government has been at eliminating the democratic deficit since being elected one year ago.

Q In the last federal election campaign, Prime Minister Paul Martin made it a priority to end western alienation. Please indicate how effective you think the Martin government has been at ending western alienation since being elected one year ago.

Q Please tell me how much you agree or disagree with the following statement. Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country.

Q Given what you know about the federal Liberal government’s sponsorship program and the evidence presented at the Gomery commission inquiry into the sponsorship program, please tell me how much the Gomery Inquiry testimony have impacted your opinion of western Canadians exploring the idea of forming their own country.

Q Recently the federal Liberal government survived a close vote of confidence on its budget primarily because of securing Belinda Stronach’s defection to the Liberals and a budget deal with the NDP. Please tell me how much the manner in which the Liberals won the budget confidence vote has impacted your opinion of western Canadians exploring the idea of forming their own country.

Q Prime Minister Paul Martin has promised to call an election 30 days after Justice Gomery issues his report into the sponsorship program. If the federal Liberals are re-elected in that election, please tell me what impact a Liberal re-election will likely have on your opinion of western Canadians exploring the idea of forming their own country.

See? Not biased nor slanted. Just blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain....

Balbulican said...

Sorry, Jeff. Your acceptance of this "poll" as a valid research instrument suggests that you don't have much experience in survey design. I'm afraid simply pointed a skewed set of questions and declaring them unbiased doesn't really amount to a defense.

I suggest you review the critiques posted here:

http://www.stageleft.info/2005/08/04/debunking-the-western-standard-poll/#comments

and here:

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13849114&postID=112315077516303311&isPopup

Both sites have comments enabled and will, I am sure, welcome your rebuttal of their critiques. But if you hope to be taken seriously as a political commentator, my advice to you would be: don't try to defend what is obviously propaganda.

Anonymous said...

Just making Balbulican's links clickable:

http://www.stageleft.info/2005/08/04/debunking-the-western-standard-poll/#comments

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13849114&postID=112315077516303311&isPopup

Zorpheous said...

Jelly-Jeff,

"Data were collected between June 29 and July 5 2005 by Dr. Faron Ellis.

A total of 1,448 adult residents of western Canada were interviewed by telephone. Respondents were selected randomly. Where necessary, the sample has been statistically weighted to more accurately represent the demographic distribution of the population. The margin of error for the weighed sample is + 2.6 per cent, 19 times out of 20. The margin of error increases when analyzing sub-samples of the total."

That is not a methodology, sorry. I think you need to actually read up on statistics and learn what PROPER methodology is an how you present the information to verify that you did indeed follow your method.

Example

"Where necessary, the sample has been statistically weighted to more accurately represent the demographic distribution of the population."

This is known as normalizing a data set, whish isn't methodology, but a method of analysis to remove unwant or possible invalid data or to cook your data to make it look better.

Statistics 101, pick up a book and read it.

jeff said...

Geez, it would be refreshing to see you guys spend this much analytical energy on polls that favour Liberal policy/agendas! The double standard is truly humorous to behold........

Rick Barnes said...

At 5:07 PM, jeff said...
The fact remains that the east will never vote for a western based prime ministerial body, and I can assure you that Alberta will never vote for an eastern based priministerial body. Stalemate Jacky! Looks like it's time to implement the firewall and the provisional ministerial appointments to all concerning bodies herein........


Jeff you miss a couple of things. I live in the west and I can tell you I will not vote for Harper, EVER. Last time I looked over 45% of Albertans voted for someone other than a Tory!

To say the east would not vote for a westerner, thats classic junk science. When the West decides to put someone up who isn't an Evangelical hardliner, look at the record dude, Manning, Day and now Harper.

I wouldn't trust any of them anywhere near the Charter of Rights and the "notwithstanding clause"

and this comment from you Jeff
36 % of my fellow westerners also seem to be voicing the same concerns. Fringe element? I think not......

I think you use the term "westerner" too loosely. Try referring to Albertans if that is what you mean. Your views do not come close to mine and I live in what we also call the west!

jeff said...

Rick, the poll shows BC's responses as well as Alberta,Sask and Manitoba. 17.2 % of BC respondents Strongly Agree with seperation...not a huge number, but a significant number none the less.........


Western Independence by Province BC Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba


Strongly agree
17.2
26.9
19.1
13.1
Somewhat agree 13.6 15.0 12.8 14.4
Somewhat disagree 15.5 15.0 20.6 19.4
Strongly disagree 49.8 40.6 42.6 48.8
Undecided 3.9 2.4 5.0 4.4

Balbulican said...

"Geez, it would be refreshing to see you guys spend this much analytical energy on polls that favour Liberal policy/agendas!"

Ah. An abrupt switch from defense of an indefensible poll to the traditional "why arent you THAT critical of the Liberals?" Well, at least you've stopped pretending that Ezra's turds are diamonds. That's progress.

jeff said...

No I am glad to defend this poll as it has an open and accessible methodology and questions that are non-biased nor suggestive.
I haven't seen too many polls that present the methodology and stats in such an open and compete manner, as this one has accomplished.
Up With the West!

Balbulican said...

"I am glad to defend this poll as it has an open and accessible methodology and questions that are non-biased nor suggestive."

Still eagerly waiting for you at Stageleft to address specific definciencies raised relating to the questions and methodology. The links are provided above.

Ti-Guy said...

I haven't seen too many polls that present the methodology and stats in such an open and compete manner, as this one has accomplished.

Really? How odd that you haven't seen too many. Most reputable polling firms are only too happy to explain the methodology they've used, and it's usually right there, in the full poll report.

In any case, the actual sampling methodology is not really the issue here; polls of these types are pretty much conducted the same way.

It's the poll's underlying design that is a problem; and this one is a push-poll. But hey; Ezra ain't takin' correspondence courses from the Repbulican College of Public Opinion Manipulation just for the keggers, eh?

jeff said...

Actually Bulbican, I did visit you at Stageleft, analysed your commentary, and posted thrice. My comments didn't appear in the comments section. These kinds of inspirational moments are very hard to recapture, but if you fix the problem over there, I will attempt to recapture the epiphanical epilogue that I meticulously crafted........

jeff said...

"It's the poll's underlying design that is a problem; and this one is a push-poll."

Wrong.

Ti-Guy said...

Oof! Now that's a labyrinthin complex of unassailable argumentation I will have to mull over considerably before responding...

...Ok, done. No, I'm pretty sure I'm right. I'm good at these kind of things, really.

jeff said...

"...Ok, done. No, I'm pretty sure I'm right. I'm good at these kind of things, really."

LOL.....fphewffff.....ok....now, where were we, all kidding aside?

jeff said...

Ti-Guy, I don't remember telling you it was okay to come up from the cellar where you're making my potato whiskey. Where's my whip.....

Ti-Guy said...

Geez...funny like a migraine, as usual.

jeff said...

Get your lazy unemployed ass back down into the root cellar Tie-Dye.......*Jeff stuffs Ty back down the small portal to slavery from whence he emerged*.........

Zorpheous said...

"No I am glad to defend this poll as it has an open and accessible methodology and questions that are non-biased nor suggestive."

Jelly-Jeff, this is an excellent example of your continous stupidity. Please keep it, it makes it easy for people to determine that you in fact know jack-shit about mathematics, statitics, logic or anything to do with intelligence.

Walkies???

jeff said...

statitics?

Zorpheous said...

Statitics, oops sorry Jelly-Jeff, I know how easy it is to confuse you.

That's STATISTICS, excuse my shitty spelling and typing.

And you still don't know jack-shit about them. But hey, at least you can spell and write, so you're not a total loss. Now if you just learn about about science and math, you might almost be intelligent then.

Oh by the way Jelly-Jeff, pointing out spelling mistakes and posting silly pictures is the ID of a debater who gets his arse kicked all the time. You still stinging from the bitch slapping I gave you over at Section 15?

WALKIES!!!!!

Ti-Guy said...

I think you'll have to use a Snausage as well.

jeff said...

lol....Zorpheous' 'walkies' are getting more frantic. Now he's resorting to the caps lock method to illustrate his frustration.....

Ti-Guy said...

It still think the "walkies" bit is funnier than anything you've ever said.

...now...*ahem*...walkies?

Bah...I can't do it right.

Balbulican said...

Jeff, if you can tear yourself away from this rapid-fire exchange of mordant wit and rapier-like wordplay (for which I don't hold you entirely responsible, he said, cocking a reproving eyebrow at those-who-should-know-better), you're needed in JB's new thread...he's looking for a separatist to answer some specific questions about policy. Chop chop!

Ti-Guy said...

he said, cocking a reproving eyebrow at those-who-should-know-better

...I am so ashamed *hangs head.*

Balbulican said...

T'a toute ma sympathie, mon vieu...c'est difficile en visitant un bon zoo de ne pas agir en singe, mais il faut tout de meme fair l'effort. ;)

Zorpheous said...

You need to say it in very british voice to make it effective. I also have Jell-Jeff trained to drool at the sound of a bell. ;-)

Ti-Guy said...

Yeah, who was it again, Barbara WoodhouseÉ That's how I was imagining it *snick*.

T'a toute ma sympathie, mon vieu...c'est difficile en visitant un bon zoo de ne pas agir en singe, mais il faut tout de meme fair l'effort. ;)

Oui, mon pêre. Deux je-vous-salue-Marie, h'on de way. ;)

Balbulican said...

Eggo Tea Absolvo.

Ti-Guy said...

Huh?..Eggos and tea or Ovaltine? No thanks, I've eaten.

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