Friday, September 11, 2009

Depleted Uranium Weapons: Cancer and the Canadian Connection

Whooee! Well friends an' foes, I sure ain't been doin' too much boogin' lately. I been doin' some twitterin', though. This mornin', I tweeted:

Soldier's cancer death linked to depleted uranium (DU): UK court - - Canadian DU connection -
Them there links got clicked 20 times in the first few minutes so I reckon there's some point in the Twitter. I been skeptical about Twitter but I thought I'd give it a chance after havin' a live-in-person chat with Stageleft a coupla weeks ago when I was up in Ottywa.

I ain't so sure about carryin' on conversations 140 characters at a time, so I figgered I'd expand (expound?) here on my boog where I can blather on as long as I want.

Anyways, here's a little more about how depleted uranium killed a Brit soldier.
The death of Stuart Dyson, a 39-year-old former soldier, from a rare from of cancer was caused by his exposure to depleted uranium used in military munitions, an inquest jury ruled.

The jury heard that Mr Dyson, a lance corporal in the Royal Pioneer Corps, cleaned tanks after the first Gulf War during a five-month deployment to the war zone.

His widow Elaine told the hearing that her husband's health had deteriorated after he left the Army in 1992 and that he was diagnosed with colon cancer, which spread to his liver and spleen, in 2007.


Giving evidence at the inquest, Professor Christopher Busby, an expert on the effects of uranium on health, said Mr Dyson's cancer was "more likely than not" caused by ingestion and inhalation of the substance during his service in the Gulf.


Professor Busby said he had visited Iraq in 2000 and had personally found particles of depleted uranium with dangerously high radiation levels near the wrecks of tanks destroyed during the 1991 war.

Keep in mind that DU ammo is also being used in Afghanistan and now that the US is stepping up its involvement, even more DU is likely to be used.

Also keep in mind that coalition soldiers are far more likely to get medical treatment and diagnoses than Iraqi or Afghan civilians living in the zones where this radioactive hazard is being dispersed. Destroyed vehicles and former battle grounds are routinely scavenged by children and others looking to pick up a few pennies from salvageable parts.

There's a Canadian connection to DU.

While the U.S. appears to be on the verge of attacking Iran just for having a nuclear reactor, Washington and its allies continue to be the biggest nuclear proliferators in the world. Chief among these nuclear allies is Canada, which provides up to 40% of the world’s uranium, the largest amount. Eighty percent of Canadian uranium is exported, with 76% going to the U.S.

Canada has long been the main source of uranium for the U.S. nuclear arsenal, globally the largest and deadliest at 10,000 warheads and bombs. Washington has a first-strike nuclear policy and is actively preparing for nuclear war. It is also the only country that has actually used nuclear weapons--not once, but twice, on Japan in 1945.

Q: How is Canada violating the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty?

Harding: Canada signed this treaty in 1970 and claimed that it would not be using uranium for weapons production. We now know that uranium out of Saskatchewan has been diverted through the depleted uranium (DU) system and has been fuelling the weapons stream. The public, I think, is largely unaware that we are still complicit directly in the weapons stream. It’s a tricky thing to track, but it goes something like this: After refining the uranium at Port Hope, we send it to the enriching system in the U.S. This system integrates both the military and the industrial uses of nuclear power. The U.S. Department of Energy and the Pentagon both take uranium from this system.

The uranium that is to be used in electrical generating nuclear reactors is concentrated to about 5%. This is uranium-235. About nine-tenths of the mass of what’s left after enrichment is called depleted uranium. This is then available to the Pentagon to use for weapons. And it’s not really depleted. That’s a misnomer. It’s still uranium. It’s primarily uranium-238, which can be put into Pentagon reactors to create plutonium. All the Pentagon needs to do is bombard the depleted uranium with neutrons and it can create a plutonium stream for weapons. Also, the depleted uranium is the packing on the H-Bomb. What makes the H-Bomb the mega-bomb is the amount of packing of the depleted uranium around the plutonium trigger.

Then the various weapons-producing companies such as Aerojet and ATK take this uranium and make the conventional depleted uranium weapons that are now contaminating probably the last four war zones in the Middle East and Southern Europe. Uranium out of Canada that’s got into the depleted uranium stream has already been dropped on Iraq during the U.S. invasion. So the weapons connection got obscured when the Non-Proliferation Treaty came, because technically the uranium is shipped to the U.S. for their reactors, but in fact the depleted uranium that’s left is then in the control of those countries. So it fundamentally abrogates the intentions of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, but not technically.

Q: What are the implications of Canada’s continuing support for U.S. nuclear militarism?

Harding: It’s frightening stuff to think about. We’re really talking madness here in terms of the capacity. How few of these mega-bombs it would take to create a catastrophe that makes climate change look insignificant! The U.S. had 37,000 nuclear weapons during the 1980s, armed and ready to go. And we’re talking about using a very small number of those and having disastrous global implications.

When you dig below the surface, the complicity issue is always there. It was there in Vietnam, in terms of companies in Canada exporting armaments and even chemicals that were used in the napalm bombing. And in Canada we’re still doing that around depleted uranium. It just tends to be hidden behind the public statements of us being a non-nuclear power and having made the decision to focus on exporting medical isotopes and not nuclear weapons. This is an effective PR and propaganda system, but it just doesn’t happen to be true.

Q: What are the effects of depleted uranium on humans when it is used in conventional weapons, aside from immediate death and injury?

Harding: The number of cancers and death by cancer are significantly greater (than if the depleted uranium were not present), as are permanent sterility, birth deformations, and death from birth deformation. Depleted uranium affects the whole embryonic development, as well as increasing the risks of thyroid leukemia and other childhood cancers. They are seeing increases in a number of cancers in Basra and in other areas where they know there were high levels of depleted uranium weaponry used.

There's plenty more in that interview.

I watched David Akin, Steve Paiken and a couple of nuclear proponents on TVO's The Agenda a couple nights ago. The topic was Canada's Nuclear Future. While they spent about two-thirds of the hour discussing Canada's role in the medical isotope business and the rest of the hour on nuclear energy issues, the topic of nuclear proliferation and Canada's role in supplying the raw material for nuclear weaponry was not mentioned, at all.

We cannot keep our heads buried in the sand. Canada is complicit in the proliferation of DU weaponry. Twenty or thirty years from now, some future Prime Minister will be issuing another meaningless apology and claiming we didn't know what was happening and sorry about all the cancer deaths. We do know.



Scott in Montreal said...

Depleted uranium... just like unexploded ordinance, cluster bombs, nuclear bombs, and the inevitable environmental degradation brought on by all that modern artillery: the weapons that keep on killing for years and years.

Thanks for sharing this JB.

Roger said...

Juries are easily persuaded by those who make their living persuading. Their findings have nothing to do with fact sometimes and the fact that Chris Busby testifed as an expert immediately taints the case. Busby is a fanatic with very little regard for science or the truth. Somehow, he obtained a PhD in something, but it has nothing to do with his continual pronouncements about DU and he is the laughing stock of genuine scientists across Europe. Don't believe me, go to the international radiation protection professional list RADSAFE hosted in Delft, The Netherlands and view the archives under "Busby". I presume that the UK government will appeal this wrongly made decision.

PS, Scott, its ordnance - an ordinance is a municipal law! Most laws do not explode. Go get your head out of the protest signs and go do some real research - maybe study some science. While you are on environmental degradation, look up coal burning power plants and then ask why there is no flood of cancer cases downwind of these plants that spew uranium dust into the air every day? Don't believe me, read this, then start peddaling to power your PC!

Uranium Emitted from Coal Fired Power Plants
Even U-235 is emitted from coal fired plants

Roger said...

Mr Simple,

Canada is not complicit in the development of depleted uranium kinetic energy penetrators or heavy armor, the only forms in which the military uses or has used DU. There is enough depleted uranium hexaflouride DUF6 to make all the DU metal that ever will be made for war time use sitting in containers within the US. Not a single gram of Canadian uranium needs to be imported to the US to develop any DU-titanium alloy penetrators. Get the facts, then sound off, instead of mouthing off first then finding the facts.

Harbles said...

Other than that the 'facts' are classified and that Canada is one of the Worlds leading suppliers of uranium I'd dare say that it was impossible to guarantee that no 'gram' of uranium produced in Canada has ended up in a DU munition.

Good to see you Fired up JB.

Roger said...


Learn to read. The statement is that "Not a single gram of Canadian uranium needs to be imported to the US to develop any DU-titanium alloy penetrators." The key word is "needs" and when someone is claiming that today's uranium industry in Canada is feeding the production of DU kinetic energy penetrators or heavy armor, then they are wrong. Did Canadian uranium contribute to the massive existing DUF6 stores, then that is probably true, especially if one goes back about 50 years. My statement was about today and so was JB's. Scott, tanks are not considered artillery, nor are their main guns even though they are cannons. There is no artillery piece that fires DU kinetic energy penetrators.

Roger said...

JB - your original post is riddled with false information. About the only thing true is that this deceased soldier was the subject of a formal inquest and Chris Busby testifed. Busby is not a professor. His claims about being a Fellow of the Medical Faculty at the University of Liverpool in his Green Audit page biography are not quite true - he never taught or researched at the University and the honorary designation ceased to exist in 2007. He may now be required to remove the claim from his bio.

Busby made a lot of claims about his adventure in Iraq (or so he says he was) - none of them really were scientifically accurate.

Your claims about Afghanistan are completely bogus. There were no tank-to-tank battles in Afghanistan. The Taliban had about two dozen left over Soviet tanks when they faced the Northern Alliance and the CIA forces in 2001. No US tanks have ever been deployed to Afghanistan. The A-10 tank killer never faced the Taliban tanks. DU is not used in bombs. The only genuine scientific study of Afghanistan, a study of the clean up of a former Soviet SCUD missile site, contains pages with measurements of the uranium content of Afghan soil. This is naturally occuring uranium in this heavily mineralized mountainous region and its deep valleys. Your statement "Keep in mind that DU ammo is also being used in Afghanistan and now that the US is stepping up its involvement, even more DU is likely to be used.
Also keep in mind that coalition soldiers are far more likely to get medical treatment and diagnoses than Iraqi or Afghan civilians living in the zones where this radioactive hazard is being dispersed. Destroyed vehicles and former battle grounds are routinely scavenged by children and others looking to pick up a few pennies from salvageable parts." is completely false. DU ammo is not being used in Afghanistan; there are no enemy tanks to shoot at and no tanks capable of shooting the DU penetrator munitions. The A-10 is now deployed to Afghanistan in its close air support role. It fires high explosive shells from its 30mm gun when facing any target other than large armored formations. DU is not effective against trucks or Taliban insurgents dug in on ridge lines.

The following is more bologna, without a shred of credibility:

"We now know that uranium out of Saskatchewan has been diverted through the depleted uranium (DU) system and has been fuelling the weapons stream. The public, I think, is largely unaware that we are still complicit directly in the weapons stream. " -- there is no "depleted uranium system" - that's a completely made up term. There never was any kind of system designed to create DU. DU is the result of uranium enrichment. Uranium enrichment is now used to create nuclear fuel rods for power plants. It has not been used for military purposes of the US or Canada for decades. The US has decommissioned missiles and nuclear warheads and has not been creating new plutonium. Activists can claim that not to be true, but it would be really nice if they actually knew what they were talking about.

No one ever said that depleted uranium was not uranium. The definition is that it is natural uranium that has been depleted of the vast bulk of its fissionable Uranium-234 and Uranium-235 leaving nearly pure Uranium-238. The "it's not depleted" just shows that the speaker (or writer is ignorant of the science and the terminology and just regurgitates what they find on the anti-DU websites like those of Leuren K Moret or Douglas Lind Rokke, both of whom are not only pseudo scientist con artists, but also closet Neo Nazis and con artists. Is JB a con artist or just a dupe, does JB like Neo Nazis - learn about the Rokke/Moret connection here - -

Roger said...

Thank you, JB. I have to admire that you actually permit comment unlike the average anti-DU blogger. This is a reply to one of them that permitted Bud Deraps, who admires Douglas Lind Rokke despite Rokke's Neo Nazi connection that is so apparent at the Chairman of the Nordwave blog -
Bud also went to Iraq as part of a peace group and claims to have been shown pictures of the grotesque birth defects that Saddam Hussein's propaganda machine deliberately misattributed to the parents being contaminated by depleted uranium during the Gulf War. I look forward to Bud taking me up on my offer - we can match scientific reports and he will at very least be exposed as an activist who cares little for the truth.

Bud Deraps accepts without question propaganda that began with Saddam Hussein. There is no fact behind that propaganda; Deraps does not even know if these "pictures" are new or what if any connection there is to depleted uranium.

Actually Deraps said in his posting that he was in Iraq in 2001 - that means that he saw nothing that Saddam's Administration did not want him to see -

"I was in Iraq in 2001 with the
Veterans for Peace Water Project.
While there,doctors gave us dozens of pictures of extremely deformed Iraq babies, just a tiny sample of the thousands born there since the 1991 war."

Rest assured if there were really thousands, Deraps would have seen thousands of pictures, not just the same ones that were shown to every other peace group who visited Saddam's Iraq. Some of those pictures have been traced to specimen jars in Czarist era (pre-1918) Russian museums. Others are of hydrocephalus and Harlequin Ichthyosis. The latter was first noted in 1750 almost 50 years before the discovery of uranium!

Roger said...

This applies to JB as well as Deraps - anyone who reads about DU should learn about the extent of the basic lies

The basic DU scenario includes the following assumptions. 1) DU dust is everywhere - that is not true and has been proven by careful examination of six major geographic areas where DU is known to have been used to kill tanks, mainly Serbian, but also Iraqi. The reason that most of the data is derived from the Balkans is that Saddam's regime refused entry to the UN Environment Programme (UNEP)Post Conflict Branch and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) teams after the Gulf War and it has not been safe for international teams to go out in the desert looking for DU since 2003. Remember, the UN offices were blown up with 500 pound bombs on a truck and the female head of CARE was beheaded. As a result, there have been three extensive scientific surveys of the Balkans, one of Kuwait, one of Southern Iraq around Basra and one in Lebanon. The survey in Lebanon found no metallic uranium, proving that none of the bunker buster bombs dropped by Israel contained depleted or any other form of uranium (you listening Chris Busby?). The ones in the Balkans are the most extensive; the reports are about 300 pages each and cover all aspects of what really happens when DU kinetic energy penetrators are fired in war time. The only disadvantage is that the only penetrators fired in the Balkans were the 30mm round fired by the cannon that the A-10 Warthog is built around. A key feature is that a large number of these penetrators, some as old as seven years after being fired, were still intact, still inside the aluminum outer shroud that completely covers the depleted uranium penetrator core. The photos of these penetrators on page 32 of the Bosnia-Herzegovina report show that the claim of "poison dust" based on the claim that the DU ignites from atmospheric friction upon leaving the gun barrel and burns all the way to the ground spreading this deadly dust is patently false. There is no trail of dust from the aircraft to the ground. There is instead considerable expectation that the vast bulk of the 30mm cannon fired penetrators are lying on or just below the desert floor, still safely encased in their aluminum shroud. The IAEA team in Kuwait took the testing further by deliberately blowing DU laden sand into the air with high explosive and measuring how far it spread in the winds. The answer was less than 100 meters with the bulk of the DU being found in the first 25 meters. That proves that this "dust" is not really going anywhere. 2) Since uranium occurs naturally all over the world and people are not dying from being exposed to this substance that every single human being on earth is exposed to on a daily basis, the propaganda mill and the anti-DU crusaders of which Bud Derap is a certainly a card carrying member, had to invent new forms of uranium oxide. They claim that DU oxide generated from the impact of the penetrator on an armored target is some sort of inexplicable ceramic dust that finds its way inside everything, even the standard Army issue gas mask. Douglas Lind Rokke is one of the key proponents of that claim, but Captain Rokke when he was assigned to the Army Chemical Corps School told writers for Armor Magazine that a soldier could adequately protect themselves by taking a bandana and wrapping it around their face. We have now gone from the gas mask does not work to all you need to do is put a tightly woven piece of cotton over your mouth and nose and you will be fine.

Roger said...

final part of the comment on the basic anti-DU scenario began with Saddam Hussein's propaganda machine -

3) DU causes birth defects, cancers and leukemia - there never is any actual linkage established - Deraps claims to have seen pictures when he went to Iraq - Deraps went to Iraq when? Was it still under Saddam? Neither Deraps nor anyone else has demanded that they be able to test the parents of these pictured children. You only take on faith that the parents were exposed to DU, innocent civilian casualties who just live there and get the DU from the sandstorms. That's just not true and Deraps knows that, but he is not willing to change, he is beginning to like the limelight as he dishonors his own family's sacrifice by giving aid and comfort to the enemy. He is not man enough to take me on directly. He only blogs and tries to avoid enabling anyone with any real scientific knowledge to reply. Well, Bud, it is time that you faced the music. Let's go head to head, two devoted amateurs, both of claiming to be opposed to lies; I am also very much opposed to Neo Nazis and American Free Press is a Nazi front organization, not a news gathering organization. It will gladly spread more lies, but it will not dig up one bit of the truth. Well Bud, where are you willing to meet. Roger

Roger said...

Capacity-building for the Assessment of Depleted Uranium in Iraq UNEP Technical Report, August 2007.

This is the preliminary examination of Iraq by an Iraqi scientific team. UNEP also assessed the environmental degradation in Iraq and DU was nowhere near at the top of the list

Depleted Uranium in Bosnia and Herzegovina - Postconflict Assessment

see the photo on page 32, contrast the photos of the team in the field with the moon suited pseudo scientific team that Busby posed for effect -

Pg 23

The UNEP DU mission to Bosnia and Herzegovina was undertaken by an 18-member team,
most of whom were involved in the two earlier UNEP DU assessments. Experts came from
UNEP, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the Swedish Radiation Protection
Authority (SSI), the United States Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine
(USACHPPM), the Nuclear Safety Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, the
Greek Atomic Energy Commission, WHO, the University of Bristol (UK), and two national
laboratories: the Swiss Spiez Laboratory and the Italian Environmental Protection Agency
and Technical Services (APAT). The WHO health expert did not visit any of the sites, but
was involved with meeting government health officials and local hospital representatives.
Due to the heavy mine and unexploded ordnance situation, a security expert, formerly of the
Finnish Institute of International Affairs, advised the team throughout the mission.

read Page 252 for Health Effects Appendix - the following is from Page 253

Depleted uranium and uranium are essentially the same, except that the content of 235U is
three times lower in DU. Consequently, DU is less radioactive than natural uranium and,
thus, a radiation dose from it would be about 60% lower than that from purified natural
uranium with the same mass. It is assumed that prior knowledge from scientific (experimental,
clinical and epidemiological) studies on uranium can be applied to DU.
• Up to now no adverse health effects of DU have been established in the limited epidemiological
studies that have been undertaken. DU may, in principle, cause both nephrotoxic
effects and internal exposure to radiation (through inhalation, or wounds contaminated
with DU). However, these have not yet been confirmed.
• No consistent or confirmed adverse chemical effects of uranium have been reported for
the skeleton or liver. No reproductive or developmental effects have been confirmed in

Radiological Conditions in Areas of Kuwait With Residues of Depleted Uranium
see Page 57, Appendix III - Experiments to Examine Resuspension Congenital Ichthyosis - this is one of the frequently used types of photos for claimed DU birth defects - it is caused by very rare recessive gene that requires that both parents have it and it was first notice in 1750 - Uranium was discovered by Martin Klaproth in 1789, nearly 40 years later -

Harbles said...

Mr H your reputation proceeds you. Also.

It's an honor to have you harass us.

Scott in Montreal said...

Hey, it's the Roger Helbig show! Depleted uranium is not particularly healthy and deserves a second look, especially in light of the fact it may be deadly.

OK, Roger, give us a few thousand breathless words in rebuttal woodja please?

PS: I stand corrected on the ordinance thing. Point taken.

Roger said...

I presume Scott and Harbles, that you each think that you know all about me. You are very much wrong - I used to be a well known whistleblower with somewhat of an international reputation for telling the truth no matter what. I am still that person, but the people who tell the lies have willing disciples like you who accept every word that they say without question. I have been slandered and maligned by Bob Nichols, the mouthpiece for Douglas Lind Rokke (and yes, I do name Rokke with his full name like he is a criminal because he is!) and Leuren K Moret, so is she - they both are professional liars, pretend scientists. Show of hands! Does Rokke have a doctorate in any science? What about Moret? If you answered yes, you believe some of the bios that have been plastered all over the net and you have never made any effort to verify them. Rokke's PhD is readily available if you go to the University of Illinois Library. I first found the title by writing a member of the Library staff who I met on another list. As a whistleblower, I have become very adept at making connections and extracting information. I have even been corresponding with Chris Busby and learned that he drank Saddam's Koolaid in 2001 and that is what got him into the anti-DU crusade. I think Rokke joined for two reasons. The Army fired Mr Rokke (that's right, he was a civilian employee fired during initial probation) and second, he found that peace groups, then 9/11 Truth ones and Veterans groups were willing to pay to have him speak to them. He is a mesmerizing speaker, but there is no substance to the speech and if you watch his various videos, you will find the same basic well rehearsed themes. You will also find that he and Moret make claims that US Army first discovered “weaponized uranium gas” as a weapon in 1943. That is pure bad science fiction and a forged document that does not even mention the word uranium. The “Memo to Groves” that they wave about in speaking tours on the net and in letters to Congress, etc. is forged. One of the giveaways is that it has three page twos, but then you also find out that it is made up of four different documents that have been put together. They don't really makes sense since the four pages do not really flow together, but no one ever reads beyond the subject line and the names of the authors on the first page. All the authors are famous, dead, Manhattan Project Scientists, so none of them can say, "hey, I wrote this, but I did not write that". Back to Rokke, how much Physics does he know? Has he ever actually worked as a Physicist? Rokke did get a BS in Physics and Criminology from Western Illinois University in 1975. Rokke has never worked as a Physicist. Rokke also claims to be a forensic scientist. He did work for the Joliet, Illinois, Police Department in 1975 as a criminal evidence technician trainee for about six months. CSI may be a popular show, but no, Rokke is no forensic scientist. He is no scientist. He appears to have taught undergraduate science courses of some kind at Jacksonville State University in Alabama as a Visiting Assistant Professor for two academic years. The university has never provided any further detail such as the exact classes that he taught, only that they were undergraduate, not graduate level.

Roger said...

Rokke's career as Mr Depleted Uranium started while he was at Jacksonville State; he sent e-mails to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and cost the tax payers a lot of money before the NRC ruled against Rokke's allegations. Then he found the anti-Sanctions student group in Cambridge University and he really liked the free trip to England and that has been his career ever since. Nice racket, but he is an expert on simple teaching methods and a fairly accomplished amateur actor and he has combined these two skills to make himself well known on the net and in person. He still really has pretty much nothing to say. Say Harbles (fake name, I presume) and Scott, (probably could not find you in Montreal, now, could I) do you think that if I were really some sort of agent that I would use my own name? I use my name because that is all a whistleblower has, their name and their reputation for integrity. I also have a reputation for thorough research and admitting if I am wrong. I am not wrong on DU. I know the frauds and I have seen nothing from anyone else that is clear and convincing evidence of anything that they claim.

Roger W Helbig
real name, real e-mail, what you see is what you get –
I got so carried away with Nichols, Rokke and Moret that I forgot about Felicity Arbuthnot. By posting those horrid phony photos of grotesque birth defects along with my name, she spurred on a great deal of research. I decided to find where those photos come from and what they really are of. Arbuthnot must correspond with Moret because she mentions the Small Claims Court trial where my neighbor Jamal Fares, a Syrian naturalized citizen of the US who pretends that he is just off the boat in the courtroom to engage the Judge’s sympathy, had enlisted Moret and Nichols . I wish that I had learned how to find court cases before I faced him; had I done so, I could have immediately impeached his “I am just simple, never been in court Your Honor” persona because he had been there and even lost before – He lost to us too. The judge finally saw through his web of lies and dismissed Moret and Nichols from the case. You too can even read about Fares v Helbig at finding the Superior Court and then “tell me about my case” using my name or Fares’s. You will find two civil harassment cases and two small claims cases – Fares poured salt on our front lawn and cursed out my wife; he also created an audio tape claiming that my daughter’s friend had called Fares’s Berkeley sandwich and coffee shop and threatened to rape his wife – he should have gone to jail for that little bit of false evidence, but the Court Commissioner let it slide – Arbuthnot glorifies the poor Syrian. I might put that audio tape up at – then you might realize who the real bad and good guys are.

JimBobby said...

Roger sez: Thank you, JB. I have to admire that you actually permit comment unlike the average anti-DU blogger.

Yer welcome, Roger. I ascribe to a few old proverbs in which there is often more than a kernel of truth. The pertinent proverb for my allowance of pretty much any comment starts out, "Give a man enough rope..." You probbly know the rest.

Another old saying has to do with the frequency and length of yer comments. It comes from ol' Billy Shakespeare and it goes somethin' like, "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." Don't getcher knickers in a twist, Roger.

I ain't callin' you a lady. I ain't sure who you were referin' to as "Mr. Simple" but I reckon it was probbly me. Yer derogatory swipe at Harbles' readin' abilitiy and yer semantic pinhead dancin' regarding "needs" and artillery and what's what on the battlefield was more indsulting than enlightening.

You spent a lotta pixels tellin' me all about a buncha people I ain't never heard of like Rokke and Moret and Deraps. You said I'm either a con artist or a dupe and you made some arcane reference to neo-nazis that made pretty much no sense at all.

I reported on a story from the London (UK) Telegraph. The characterization of Busby as "an expert on the effects of uranium on health" was in the quoted Telegraph story. If you got an argument with the UK courts or with the UK newspapers, take it up with them.

I reported a couple of facts. One fact is that the UK court linked a UK soldier's death to DU. The other fact was that Canadian uranium is exported in large quantities to the US where the byproduct of nuclear fuel rod manufacture is used to create DU weapons.

You may not like what the UK court decided. Take it up with them. You may not agree that Canadian uranium is remotely connected to US DU weapons but you have provided no proof that it is not. With large quanities of Canadian uranium being processed into nuclear fruel rods and DU made from teh byproduct of nuclear fuel rod production, you cannot authoritatively say that no Canadian uranium ever ends up in US DU ammunition.

All-in-all, I find yer a longwinded apologist for a dangerous technology. Your insulting name-calling and use of straw men to bolster your specious arguments don't cut much shit around these parts. I figger yer on some arms manufacturer's payroll or else yer just plain off yer rocker. By taking up the fight against those you classify as "anti-DU", you put yourself in the "pro-DU" camp. I'm a peace-lovin', 60 year-old flower child. I ain't in favour of any weapons; especially, the kind that remain dangerous long after the warring factions have gone home to brag about their exploits.

Yeah, I can be long-winded, too. It's my blog. Don't start correctin' my spellin', neither.

Antinuke, anti-war, anti-nutjob, peacenik

Roger said...

JB, You seem a tad younger than me, not much. You may not know who Rokke or Moret are, but Busby, the principle witness at the Coroner's Inquest certainly does and their ideas, all of which are false, abound on anti-DU websites. Maybe before you post all over Twitter and stir up the natives, you should learn what you are posting about. I also mentioned Moret because she has made an effort to saturate Canada and you buy into her ideas there too, even though you claim not to know her. True, Canada has exported uranium to the US, but to shut down uranium production because some DUF6 that originated from uranium exported to the US in the 1950's might get made into a DU penetrator or heavy armor is pretty much nuts. Yes, I was derogatory to you and Harbles, who slandered me by pulling up the piece with the photo of the probable Iraqi child patient with hydrocephalus who if he has survived the turmoil and car bombs in his country is probably a healthy 18 year old kid by now. That's part of the anti-DU crusade, saturate the net with lies and pull in old peaceniks like you. Did you ever think that those who actually are most for peace are those who have served? Some of the foremost proponents of nuclear disarmament in both US and Russia are former commanders of strategic nuclear forces. They know what nuclear weapons can do and they call for their removal from the world stage. DU is not a nuclear weapon; Moret calls it “61 Years of Nuclear War” - she starts with the forged Memo to Groves from 1943 and then goes on to Iraq in 2003. The anti-DU crusade also falsely maintains that DU (or uranium weapons as they like to call them and your hero Busby claims that new "uranium weapons" made of enriched uranium (so that it could not be detected as DU - he forgets little problems like sustained fission reactions, critical masses and inadvertent atomic explosions along with the cost of enriched uranium as being the reason why no one would ever make a "bullet" out of enriched uranium, but he is the "expert" at this Coroner's Inquest which has done grave harm to the soldier's family and the world by being taken in by Busby and his wiles - I intend to contact the Coroner and obtain the full transcript of the proceedings and also find out if these things can be appealed.

Roger said...

One last point, am I pro-DU; not really; I am vehemently opposed to the liars and con artists, I have no stake in the continued use of DU; I do have strong feelings against declaring the use of DU to keep American and UK tank crews alive as being a war crime when it was not. DU may not even be that effective against the most modern tank armor and it may be obsolete against the next generation main battle tank. Then there will be no more need for it. The only need for it now is if the North Korean Army decides to spasm across the 38th Parallel and restart the Korean War in the death throes of that nation. If that were to happen, DU is one way that would be used to stop the armored hordes. It is useless against Taliban dug into mountains, Somali tribesmen, Iraqi insurgents, Hamas in Gaza or Hezbollah in Lebanon, but the anti-DU crusade, to make themselves relevant, claim that DU is used in all modern munitions and it is used to root the Taliban out of caves and Moret even claims it is used to depopulate the Muslim world. These statements are highly inflammatory and could result in someone paying US (and even Canada since you are pretty close by) back for poisoning the land forever with DU with a crude nuclear weapon that kills hundreds of thousands or millions. That's what I am really against, liars fomenting violence on an unimaginable scale. Are you for that? You did not bother to follow the Neo Nazi connection - just look up "Beyond Treason" and American Gulf War Veterans Association and then go to the reference and see what Dave von Kleist does. Look at all the anti-DU crap that is printed in the American Free Press and remember just who they are. Maybe, then you will realize that as an old anti-war person that you have been used by some very nasty people. There was a piece on PBS tonight that had some very graphic images of lynchings in the south and it shows a nice Swastika emblazoned car along with the dead hanging black men - that's who the Neo Nazis are - do real peace advocates side with them? Good night

Feynman and Coulter's Love Child said...

While the U.S. appears to be on the verge of attacking Iran just for having a nuclear reactor, Washington and its allies continue to be the biggest nuclear proliferators in the world. Chief among these nuclear allies is Canada, which provides up to 40% of the world’s uranium, the largest amount.

If the attack on Iran was "for having a nuclear reactor" you might have a point. Of course, such progressive nations as India and France are building nuclear reactors without the 5th Fleet being built up in response.

Yet Iran gets one. You'd almost think there was some unique issue with Iran. Nah, it has to be just "nuclear hypocrisy".

Feynman and Coulter's Love Child said...

Incidentally, as with all opponents of "depleted uranium" you may want to look up "depleted" in a dictionary sometime. It's not a marketing term.

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